Comments on: Flash VaporDrives: Promises, Promises http://storagemojo.com/2007/01/19/flash-vapordrives-promises-promises/ Data storage info & analysis Mon, 08 Sep 2008 01:28:43 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: Peter http://storagemojo.com/2007/01/19/flash-vapordrives-promises-promises/#comment-23231 Peter Mon, 12 Feb 2007 20:52:38 +0000 http://storagemojo.com/?p=353#comment-23231 I am tired of waiting for SSD's. I wouldn't be so annoyed if Samsung hadn't been shipping the Q1 for over a year now. I'm pissed. I am tired of waiting for SSD’s. I wouldn’t be so annoyed if Samsung hadn’t been shipping the Q1 for over a year now. I’m pissed.

]]> By: knijnsel http://storagemojo.com/2007/01/19/flash-vapordrives-promises-promises/#comment-18675 knijnsel Sun, 28 Jan 2007 20:03:41 +0000 http://storagemojo.com/?p=353#comment-18675 hear, hear. Your article appeals to me. I've been trying to get my hands on a large-sized flash drive for quite a while now - and indeed have been unable to buy one. Currently my hopes for at least some performance increase (& for me lower power usage) are on microsoft supporting their readydrive. Let us hope they have the size to start these drives shipping in masses. Then wait for the real stuff... knijnsel hear, hear.
Your article appeals to me. I’ve been trying to get my hands on a large-sized flash drive for quite a while now - and indeed have been unable to buy one. Currently my hopes for at least some performance increase (& for me lower power usage) are on microsoft supporting their readydrive. Let us hope they have the size to start these drives shipping in masses. Then wait for the real stuff…
knijnsel

]]> By: Richard http://storagemojo.com/2007/01/19/flash-vapordrives-promises-promises/#comment-17412 Richard Sun, 21 Jan 2007 04:26:17 +0000 http://storagemojo.com/?p=353#comment-17412 Robin, I think that you are right about the wear-leveling algorithms and the resulting impact on warranty-related issues ... and how to qualify these. May also be related to modifications required to the OS … if at all possible … with the largest impact on write algorithms. There is only 'so much' such algorithms can do on a Flash-based SSD without a lot of RAM .... and then we are back to cost. Robin,

I think that you are right about the wear-leveling algorithms and the resulting impact on warranty-related issues … and how to qualify these.

May also be related to modifications required to the OS … if at all possible … with the largest impact on write algorithms.

There is only ’so much’ such algorithms can do on a Flash-based SSD without a lot of RAM …. and then we are back to cost.

]]> By: Hirni http://storagemojo.com/2007/01/19/flash-vapordrives-promises-promises/#comment-17301 Hirni Sat, 20 Jan 2007 10:15:10 +0000 http://storagemojo.com/?p=353#comment-17301 Imho it's quite simple, AND - no - flash HDDs as you describe will NOT fly in my opinion. The pricing and capacity of flash is dictated by USB-sticks. Actually it's that what consumers can easily compare to and make judgements whether the industry wants to rip you off or not. A consumer won't accept price-levels of FC-15k-rpm drives ! Technically newer PCs can boot from USB or CF ... So currently - a 2GB CF-card (has IDE electronics in it) costs ~50 EURO A USB-stick w. 2GB - ~30 EURO. Now everybody does this Dollar/Gig calculation - and it's IMHO BULL ! It's more a question of ABSOULTE price. The wear-out/warranty can be an issue - I haven't thought on that. to me the priorities are something like this: 1.) absolute price. If a device of whatever capacity is less than $99 - I would give it a try. (as long as I can revert easily to my spinning-hdd if I'm disappointed.) 2a) is it possible to install windows/linux on it for John Doe ? 2.) capacity: Does a usefull Windows/Linux fit on it ? There is no case - if this can't be done for the average config. User-data still could live on a second/external stick/hdd etc., but if a typical OS won't fit on it - and/or can't directly boot from it - there's no case. 3.) Reliability and widespread availability: If you can't buy the stuff in a tech-supermarket - no chance. If you provide some overpriced junk like MemoryStick or xD - dead. Before an enthusiast user would buy a HUGE (highprice) flash-gadget, he wants to test it with some low-end-part - whether it really delivers on the promises: (real-world speed, capacity acceptable ?, battery-life really longer ?) For this - at some minor fiddling is acceptable - as long as it works. So there is close to ZERO motivation for customers to invest 500+ bucks and not knowing whether it has a equivalent everyday benefit. IMHO the current flash-approach of the HDD-vendors violates all those rules. - They just want to rip off the customer. Clayton Christensen's "The innovator's dilemma" explains quite well, why the current HDD-vendors CAN NOT (or very unlikely) be the same guys - who will lead the FLASH or more generally the SSD transition. So by looking at Samsung's FLASH announcements - you're judging the market from a wrong perspective. I'd more look at the moves of SanDISK & the like :-) hirni Imho it’s quite simple, AND - no - flash HDDs as you describe will NOT fly in my opinion.

The pricing and capacity of flash is dictated by USB-sticks.
Actually it’s that what consumers can easily compare to and make judgements whether the industry wants to rip you off or not.
A consumer won’t accept price-levels of FC-15k-rpm drives !

Technically newer PCs can boot from USB or CF …
So currently - a 2GB CF-card (has IDE electronics in it) costs ~50 EURO
A USB-stick w. 2GB - ~30 EURO.
Now everybody does this Dollar/Gig calculation - and it’s IMHO BULL !
It’s more a question of ABSOULTE price.
The wear-out/warranty can be an issue - I haven’t thought on that.

to me the priorities are something like this:

1.) absolute price.
If a device of whatever capacity is less than $99 - I would give it a try.
(as long as I can revert easily to my spinning-hdd if I’m disappointed.)

2a) is it possible to install windows/linux on it for John Doe ?

2.) capacity: Does a usefull Windows/Linux fit on it ?
There is no case - if this can’t be done for the average config.
User-data still could live on a second/external stick/hdd etc., but if a typical OS won’t fit on it - and/or can’t directly boot from it - there’s no case.

3.) Reliability and widespread availability:
If you can’t buy the stuff in a tech-supermarket - no chance.
If you provide some overpriced junk like MemoryStick or xD - dead.

Before an enthusiast user would buy a HUGE (highprice) flash-gadget, he wants to test it with some low-end-part - whether it really delivers on the promises: (real-world speed, capacity acceptable ?, battery-life really longer ?)
For this - at some minor fiddling is acceptable - as long as it works.

So there is close to ZERO motivation for customers to invest 500+ bucks and not knowing whether it has a equivalent everyday benefit.

IMHO the current flash-approach of the HDD-vendors violates all those rules. - They just want to rip off the customer.
Clayton Christensen’s “The innovator’s dilemma” explains quite well, why the current HDD-vendors CAN NOT (or very unlikely) be the same guys - who will lead the FLASH or more generally the SSD transition.
So by looking at Samsung’s FLASH announcements - you’re judging the market from a wrong perspective.
I’d more look at the moves of SanDISK & the like :-)

hirni

]]> By: Miro http://storagemojo.com/2007/01/19/flash-vapordrives-promises-promises/#comment-17227 Miro Sat, 20 Jan 2007 01:00:03 +0000 http://storagemojo.com/?p=353#comment-17227 As usual, very good article :) One thing I noticed is that none of the PQI's SSD products has FCC and CE logo on their page: http://www.pqi.com.tw/product.asp?oid=142&CATE1=151 Could it be that they are waiting FCC approval/certificate before they put the SSDs on the market? As Steve Jobs mentioned on the iPhone's keynote "this can take 6 months" :) On the PQI's site front page there is a news article from 9 Jan 2007, and I also noticed that the SSDs are available as an option for sales questions: (as DiskOnModule products): http://www.pqi.com.tw/contact_sales.asp Could StorageMogo ask them when we can expect the product to be available for purchase by Execs who hate to carry second battery? :) As usual, very good article :)

One thing I noticed is that none of the PQI’s SSD products has FCC and CE logo on their page:

http://www.pqi.com.tw/product.asp?oid=142&CATE1=151

Could it be that they are waiting FCC approval/certificate before they put the SSDs on the market? As Steve Jobs mentioned on the iPhone’s keynote “this can take 6 months” :)

On the PQI’s site front page there is a news article from 9 Jan 2007, and I also noticed that the SSDs are available as an option for sales questions:
(as DiskOnModule products):

http://www.pqi.com.tw/contact_sales.asp

Could StorageMogo ask them when we can expect the product to be available for purchase by Execs who hate to carry second battery? :)

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