Comments on: Finally, some drive model failure numbers http://storagemojo.com/2007/04/05/finally-some-drive-model-failure-numbers/ Data storage info & analysis Fri, 25 Jul 2008 14:42:40 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: xila http://storagemojo.com/2007/04/05/finally-some-drive-model-failure-numbers/#comment-186508 xila Thu, 03 Apr 2008 19:57:33 +0000 http://storagemojo.com/?p=423#comment-186508 the information i got of hard disk failure is not enough because these are there common failure that i use to come across like the noisy sound when a hard drive is getting its death sentence but what i would like to know is that if would came across a problem in a hard drive and the hard drive fails going down with your data what are chances of getting the data? and how would one be able to troubleshoot that problem? pls help im in a crisis the information i got of hard disk failure is not enough because these are there common failure that i use to come across like the noisy sound when a hard drive is getting its death sentence but what i would like to know is that if would came across a problem in a hard drive and the hard drive fails going down with your data what are chances of getting the data? and how would one be able to troubleshoot that problem? pls help im in a crisis

]]> By: Tim http://storagemojo.com/2007/04/05/finally-some-drive-model-failure-numbers/#comment-152750 Tim Tue, 04 Dec 2007 10:12:01 +0000 http://storagemojo.com/?p=423#comment-152750 I guess the only thing i can see with the numbers is what were the drives doing? if the SATA drives were doing high speed, streaming data (yes, i have a customer doing this) then i am impressed with how low the numbers are. on the other hand, if your FC disks are doing non-critical (tier 2 or 3 storage - yes, same customer) then that too is good to know. non the less, the info is great, thanks! I guess the only thing i can see with the numbers is what were the drives doing? if the SATA drives were doing high speed, streaming data (yes, i have a customer doing this) then i am impressed with how low the numbers are. on the other hand, if your FC disks are doing non-critical (tier 2 or 3 storage - yes, same customer) then that too is good to know.

non the less, the info is great, thanks!

]]> By: kace http://storagemojo.com/2007/04/05/finally-some-drive-model-failure-numbers/#comment-69538 kace Tue, 29 May 2007 04:26:55 +0000 http://storagemojo.com/?p=423#comment-69538 I know a little about statistics. Hard data is great. But, this data is somewhat limited and people should be careful about drawing sweeping conclusions based on it. The biggest issue is that for reliability estimates you really want to know how long until you saw the failure. Granted, you said these are all within the first year. But, the typical assumption is that each model has a mean time to failure and you'd want to estimate that based on the observed failure times, in addition to the observed failure rate. Also, including "handling errors" in the data is a mistake because it doesn't help to answer the question I think you're interested in: how long before an in-service drive fails? (For that matter, statisticians often choose to disregard "infant mortality" failures, i.e., very early failures which may indicate a manufacturing defect rather than a wear-and-tear, reliability-based failure. I think that technique might have been useful here, because how many of these failures may have been based on shipping damage or installation damage (tech. adds/removes components to new machine and damages drive in the process)? ) Anyway, that's what statisticians do: complain about the data. :) Thanks for interesting post. I know a little about statistics. Hard data is great. But, this data is somewhat limited and people should be careful about drawing sweeping conclusions based on it. The biggest issue is that for reliability estimates you really want to know how long until you saw the failure. Granted, you said these are all within the first year. But, the typical assumption is that each model has a mean time to failure and you’d want to estimate that based on the observed failure times, in addition to the observed failure rate.

Also, including “handling errors” in the data is a mistake because it doesn’t help to answer the question I think you’re interested in: how long before an in-service drive fails? (For that matter, statisticians often choose to disregard “infant mortality” failures, i.e., very early failures which may indicate a manufacturing defect rather than a wear-and-tear, reliability-based failure. I think that technique might have been useful here, because how many of these failures may have been based on shipping damage or installation damage (tech. adds/removes components to new machine and damages drive in the process)? )

Anyway, that’s what statisticians do: complain about the data. :) Thanks for interesting post.

]]> By: Jose Pinto http://storagemojo.com/2007/04/05/finally-some-drive-model-failure-numbers/#comment-61794 Jose Pinto Sun, 06 May 2007 10:44:35 +0000 http://storagemojo.com/?p=423#comment-61794 Hi Mr. Robin Harris. First of all, thank you very much for your informations. If there is something very hard to see is informations about hard disk, and about quality and reliability is harder. I will translate your informations to write to brasilian people, (of course I will put the credit) here in Brasil there none about hard disk. As I´m a hard disk harware repair worker and the only one that writes about disk I think that I need to write what you wrote because as you say we need to start somewhere. Thank you very much, all your articles are very good I feell myself in a hard disk library. Best regards Jose Pinto Hi Mr. Robin Harris.
First of all, thank you very much for your informations. If there is something very hard to see is informations about hard disk, and about quality and reliability is harder. I will translate your informations to write to brasilian people, (of course I will put the credit) here in Brasil there none about hard disk. As I´m a hard disk harware repair worker and the only one that writes about disk I think that I need to write what you wrote because as you say we need to start somewhere.
Thank you very much, all your articles are very good I feell myself in a hard disk library.
Best regards
Jose Pinto

]]> By: aDEPT http://storagemojo.com/2007/04/05/finally-some-drive-model-failure-numbers/#comment-52676 aDEPT Tue, 17 Apr 2007 04:19:38 +0000 http://storagemojo.com/?p=423#comment-52676 I'm not sure why there is this big fuss about drive failures in the context of the commercial storage industry. If I was to buy a drive for my home system, I don't want the drive to fail, but in a work environment (with RAID) I don't just purchase the drive but a support contact that makes a drive failure the vendors problem. The real failure rates would be useful in calculating the real risk of data loss, I have a discussion with one customer on how many spare SATA drives they need to provide a given level of protection for their email archive. But once the chance of data loss is below an acceptable threshold then that is as far as it goes. If EMC/HDS/IBM/NetApp decide to use a drive with a high failure rate, then there is no additional cost to me, an engineer shows up with a dive and swaps it. If vendor X uses a crummy drive and has to swap 5 drives a year, and vendor Y only does 2, then it is venodr X who gets hit on the bottom line. I have already chosen a vendor based on cost, features and how generous the company's sales person was. I’m not sure why there is this big fuss about drive failures in the context of the commercial storage industry.

If I was to buy a drive for my home system, I don’t want the drive to fail, but in a work environment (with RAID) I don’t just purchase the drive but a support contact that makes a drive failure the vendors problem.

The real failure rates would be useful in calculating the real risk of data loss, I have a discussion with one customer on how many spare SATA drives they need to provide a given level of protection for their email archive. But once the chance of data loss is below an acceptable threshold then that is as far as it goes.

If EMC/HDS/IBM/NetApp decide to use a drive with a high failure rate, then there is no additional cost to me, an engineer shows up with a dive and swaps it. If vendor X uses a crummy drive and has to swap 5 drives a year, and vendor Y only does 2, then it is venodr X who gets hit on the bottom line. I have already chosen a vendor based on cost, features and how generous the company’s sales person was.

]]> By: Darren Embry http://storagemojo.com/2007/04/05/finally-some-drive-model-failure-numbers/#comment-51544 Darren Embry Fri, 13 Apr 2007 17:58:43 +0000 http://storagemojo.com/?p=423#comment-51544 Google, for example, might not have wanted to publish brand reliability data in their report because their competitors would like to be able to use it. Google, for example, might not have wanted to publish brand reliability data in their report because their competitors would like to be able to use it.

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