<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: EMC&#8217;s new flash drives</title>
	<atom:link href="http://storagemojo.com/2008/01/14/emcs-new-flash-drives/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://storagemojo.com/2008/01/14/emcs-new-flash-drives/</link>
	<description>Data storage info &#38; analysis</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 02:16:15 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; storage</title>
		<link>http://storagemojo.com/2008/01/14/emcs-new-flash-drives/comment-page-1/#comment-197744</link>
		<dc:creator>Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; storage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 20:32:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storagemojo.com/2008/01/14/emcs-new-flash-drives/#comment-197744</guid>
		<description>[...] in a different pricerange. They provide whitepapers with excellent numbers, but I remember that storagemojo explained the SSD products they actually use in more detail. He&#8217;s actually one of the consultants who talks about the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] in a different pricerange. They provide whitepapers with excellent numbers, but I remember that storagemojo explained the SSD products they actually use in more detail. He&#8217;s actually one of the consultants who talks about the [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Solid Sate SAN, Storage vMotion and VMWare - HSM for your VMs &#171; Virtualization, Windows, Infrastructure and all that &#8220;stuff&#8221; in-between</title>
		<link>http://storagemojo.com/2008/01/14/emcs-new-flash-drives/comment-page-1/#comment-195632</link>
		<dc:creator>Solid Sate SAN, Storage vMotion and VMWare - HSM for your VMs &#171; Virtualization, Windows, Infrastructure and all that &#8220;stuff&#8221; in-between</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 13:58:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storagemojo.com/2008/01/14/emcs-new-flash-drives/#comment-195632</guid>
		<description>[...] also see EMC integrating flash storage into the array itself, would be even better if you could transparently migrate LUNS to/from [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] also see EMC integrating flash storage into the array itself, would be even better if you could transparently migrate LUNS to/from [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Zeus IOPS - Another High Performance SSD &#171; Kevin Burton&#8217;s NEW FeedBlog</title>
		<link>http://storagemojo.com/2008/01/14/emcs-new-flash-drives/comment-page-1/#comment-166690</link>
		<dc:creator>Zeus IOPS - Another High Performance SSD &#171; Kevin Burton&#8217;s NEW FeedBlog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 02:13:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storagemojo.com/2008/01/14/emcs-new-flash-drives/#comment-166690</guid>
		<description>[...] Storage Mojo has additional commentary. They&#8217;re comparing these drives to the RamSan which is not a fair comparison since this is a DRAM based SAN device. The RamSan-500 should trounce everything on the market but the pricing is astronomical. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Storage Mojo has additional commentary. They&#8217;re comparing these drives to the RamSan which is not a fair comparison since this is a DRAM based SAN device. The RamSan-500 should trounce everything on the market but the pricing is astronomical. [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: sanguy</title>
		<link>http://storagemojo.com/2008/01/14/emcs-new-flash-drives/comment-page-1/#comment-165860</link>
		<dc:creator>sanguy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 15:54:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storagemojo.com/2008/01/14/emcs-new-flash-drives/#comment-165860</guid>
		<description>SSD in an array is not new. Xiotech has been shipping this feature since mid 2006. Slides in next to the fibre channel disks. Great for transaction log activity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SSD in an array is not new. Xiotech has been shipping this feature since mid 2006. Slides in next to the fibre channel disks. Great for transaction log activity.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: CORDERO</title>
		<link>http://storagemojo.com/2008/01/14/emcs-new-flash-drives/comment-page-1/#comment-164066</link>
		<dc:creator>CORDERO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2008 02:29:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storagemojo.com/2008/01/14/emcs-new-flash-drives/#comment-164066</guid>
		<description>Mr. Hutsell I would like to know more about RAMSam-500 spec and SRP prices too. If you have a competitive list with performance that would be great. Please email any informatio corderodavid@gmail.com or call me at 617-838-4040</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Hutsell I would like to know more about RAMSam-500 spec and SRP prices too. If you have a competitive list with performance that would be great. Please email any informatio <a href="mailto:corderodavid@gmail.com">corderodavid@gmail.com</a> or call me at 617-838-4040</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Woody</title>
		<link>http://storagemojo.com/2008/01/14/emcs-new-flash-drives/comment-page-1/#comment-163717</link>
		<dc:creator>Woody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 23:22:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storagemojo.com/2008/01/14/emcs-new-flash-drives/#comment-163717</guid>
		<description>Stephen,

We would be happy to give you a full briefing on the RamSan-500 enterprise flash solid state disk and its performance characteristics.  As you can see above, we provided some data to compare the RamSan to the STEC drive but you can only take so much from that in terms of comparing us to the EMC system.  EMC has not published any real performance data so it is really hard to judge how well they are taking advantage of the STEC claimed performance.  If you have looked at the EMC controller-cache-storage architecture you can see that this architecture will add latency to STEC drive accesses.  You can also see that the EMC backend loops have an interesting effect on the actual deployment of the drives.  So, all told we are left where we usually are with EMC and that is that they do not publish real performance data and we will have to determine their actual performance by tests that real world customers do comparing our products.

Woody Hutsell, EVP, Texas Memory Systems, 713-266-3200 x.241</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stephen,</p>
<p>We would be happy to give you a full briefing on the RamSan-500 enterprise flash solid state disk and its performance characteristics.  As you can see above, we provided some data to compare the RamSan to the STEC drive but you can only take so much from that in terms of comparing us to the EMC system.  EMC has not published any real performance data so it is really hard to judge how well they are taking advantage of the STEC claimed performance.  If you have looked at the EMC controller-cache-storage architecture you can see that this architecture will add latency to STEC drive accesses.  You can also see that the EMC backend loops have an interesting effect on the actual deployment of the drives.  So, all told we are left where we usually are with EMC and that is that they do not publish real performance data and we will have to determine their actual performance by tests that real world customers do comparing our products.</p>
<p>Woody Hutsell, EVP, Texas Memory Systems, 713-266-3200 x.241</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Barry Whyte</title>
		<link>http://storagemojo.com/2008/01/14/emcs-new-flash-drives/comment-page-1/#comment-163665</link>
		<dc:creator>Barry Whyte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 19:46:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storagemojo.com/2008/01/14/emcs-new-flash-drives/#comment-163665</guid>
		<description>Some of you may remember my post about these very SSD&#039;s back in September last year. http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/page/storagevirtualization?entry=ssd_s_are_becoming_a


The 30x claim by EMC made me smile too. While I have proved through physical bechmarking of the STEC drives, they can sustain the claimed 50K and 19K figures when using 4K transfers. As you increase the transfer size, the IO/s decrease accordingly. BTW, the only controller I could use to actually drive these was SVC.

So the 30x statement, I read, to mean thats all that DMX can actually get from them. This more a statement of the FCAL capabilities at the backend of DMX than anything else. I guess its also maybe a statement about their pricing being 30x. I know the price STEC were talking when they talked with us, and also that EMC signed an exclusive deal with them for the FC variants of these drives.

These drives are 2Gig FCAL attach, so their 4Gig backend will  be slowed down when you put these in, not really a problem for IO/s but will limit the MB/s claims. 

What I find most interesting, and probably again the reason for the 30x (rather than the 150+x the drives are capable of) are that they are supporting up to 32 per DMX Quadrant. Now, we know that EMC don&#039;t publicly benchmark their controllers, IBM does and so we have an idea of what a DS8300 can sustain. The DMX is likely to be in a similar ballpark, based on the number of drives they supprot etc etc. So don&#039;t be expecting the drive performance from the array, its going to be limited by the physical subsystem and not the drives. This is a capacity play, and fair game. Its a reduce latency and much increased IO/s range, even if you can&#039;t actually get the max out of the drive.

The drives themselves meet the claims made by STEC. They are sustainable in the right enclosure ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some of you may remember my post about these very SSD&#8217;s back in September last year. <a href="http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/page/storagevirtualization?entry=ssd_s_are_becoming_a" rel="nofollow">http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/page/storagevirtualization?entry=ssd_s_are_becoming_a</a></p>
<p>The 30x claim by EMC made me smile too. While I have proved through physical bechmarking of the STEC drives, they can sustain the claimed 50K and 19K figures when using 4K transfers. As you increase the transfer size, the IO/s decrease accordingly. BTW, the only controller I could use to actually drive these was SVC.</p>
<p>So the 30x statement, I read, to mean thats all that DMX can actually get from them. This more a statement of the FCAL capabilities at the backend of DMX than anything else. I guess its also maybe a statement about their pricing being 30x. I know the price STEC were talking when they talked with us, and also that EMC signed an exclusive deal with them for the FC variants of these drives.</p>
<p>These drives are 2Gig FCAL attach, so their 4Gig backend will  be slowed down when you put these in, not really a problem for IO/s but will limit the MB/s claims. </p>
<p>What I find most interesting, and probably again the reason for the 30x (rather than the 150+x the drives are capable of) are that they are supporting up to 32 per DMX Quadrant. Now, we know that EMC don&#8217;t publicly benchmark their controllers, IBM does and so we have an idea of what a DS8300 can sustain. The DMX is likely to be in a similar ballpark, based on the number of drives they supprot etc etc. So don&#8217;t be expecting the drive performance from the array, its going to be limited by the physical subsystem and not the drives. This is a capacity play, and fair game. Its a reduce latency and much increased IO/s range, even if you can&#8217;t actually get the max out of the drive.</p>
<p>The drives themselves meet the claims made by STEC. They are sustainable in the right enclosure <img src='http://storagemojo.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Stephen Foskett</title>
		<link>http://storagemojo.com/2008/01/14/emcs-new-flash-drives/comment-page-1/#comment-163617</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Foskett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:32:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storagemojo.com/2008/01/14/emcs-new-flash-drives/#comment-163617</guid>
		<description>Robin,

I&#039;m very interested in the performance claims here, since EMC has traditionally been quite reluctant to make any performance claims about their products.  But I guess when you introduce a super-expensive technology just for a performance boost, you kind of have to talk performance numbers!  :-)

I bet the STEC numbers are &quot;best case&quot; and the EMC numbers are &quot;safe&quot; - this would reflect the marketing position of EMC and explain the discrepancy.  I&#039;d love more information the TMS configuration...

Stephen</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robin,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m very interested in the performance claims here, since EMC has traditionally been quite reluctant to make any performance claims about their products.  But I guess when you introduce a super-expensive technology just for a performance boost, you kind of have to talk performance numbers!  <img src='http://storagemojo.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I bet the STEC numbers are &#8220;best case&#8221; and the EMC numbers are &#8220;safe&#8221; &#8211; this would reflect the marketing position of EMC and explain the discrepancy.  I&#8217;d love more information the TMS configuration&#8230;</p>
<p>Stephen</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Robin Harris</title>
		<link>http://storagemojo.com/2008/01/14/emcs-new-flash-drives/comment-page-1/#comment-163613</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin Harris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:19:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storagemojo.com/2008/01/14/emcs-new-flash-drives/#comment-163613</guid>
		<description>Stephen Foskett: good catch. EMC claiming LESS than it could? After all 300 IOPS on an enterprise 15k drive - which I think a bit high, but OK - x 30 = 9,000 IOPS, about half of what STEC claims.

Maybe there are some issues with the drive &lt;i&gt;in situ&lt;/i&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stephen Foskett: good catch. EMC claiming LESS than it could? After all 300 IOPS on an enterprise 15k drive &#8211; which I think a bit high, but OK &#8211; x 30 = 9,000 IOPS, about half of what STEC claims.</p>
<p>Maybe there are some issues with the drive <i>in situ</i>.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Stephen Foskett, Pack Rat :: Flash! EMC&#8217;s DMX is the New New Thing Again</title>
		<link>http://storagemojo.com/2008/01/14/emcs-new-flash-drives/comment-page-1/#comment-163606</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Foskett, Pack Rat :: Flash! EMC&#8217;s DMX is the New New Thing Again</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 15:50:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storagemojo.com/2008/01/14/emcs-new-flash-drives/#comment-163606</guid>
		<description>[...] Robin Harris suggests that flash disks are more like 75x the performance of a disk drive, rather than the 30x EMC is consistently claiming, and also that Texas Memory Systems&#8217; Ram San offers nearly twice the performance! [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Robin Harris suggests that flash disks are more like 75x the performance of a disk drive, rather than the 30x EMC is consistently claiming, and also that Texas Memory Systems&#8217; Ram San offers nearly twice the performance! [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Open Systems Guy</title>
		<link>http://storagemojo.com/2008/01/14/emcs-new-flash-drives/comment-page-1/#comment-163585</link>
		<dc:creator>Open Systems Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 15:01:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storagemojo.com/2008/01/14/emcs-new-flash-drives/#comment-163585</guid>
		<description>Solid state&#039;s primary criticism I&#039;ve heard was that it required strong &quot;plumbing&quot; for a server to actually take advantage of its speed. In the disk world, one of our major problems has always been being able to provide low latency small random reads for database type applications. Write cache has been our only answer for years, and I&#039;m surprised that it&#039;s taken over a decade for someone to put an SSD into a disk array.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Solid state&#8217;s primary criticism I&#8217;ve heard was that it required strong &#8220;plumbing&#8221; for a server to actually take advantage of its speed. In the disk world, one of our major problems has always been being able to provide low latency small random reads for database type applications. Write cache has been our only answer for years, and I&#8217;m surprised that it&#8217;s taken over a decade for someone to put an SSD into a disk array.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: xfer_rdy</title>
		<link>http://storagemojo.com/2008/01/14/emcs-new-flash-drives/comment-page-1/#comment-163473</link>
		<dc:creator>xfer_rdy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 07:36:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storagemojo.com/2008/01/14/emcs-new-flash-drives/#comment-163473</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll join the confusion,,, is it a single drive vs an 8 port fibre array  with 9 drives ? It doesn&#039;t matter, RAM-SAN is running into the internal IO bottleneck, probably PCI-X internal bus or drives. IF you had 9 Zeus drives it should give you an aggregate bandwidth equal to RAM-SAN from those numbers...  It sounds like a wash on performance, but I thought the Zeus only writes @100MB/s.  

Enjoy the wheels</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll join the confusion,,, is it a single drive vs an 8 port fibre array  with 9 drives ? It doesn&#8217;t matter, RAM-SAN is running into the internal IO bottleneck, probably PCI-X internal bus or drives. IF you had 9 Zeus drives it should give you an aggregate bandwidth equal to RAM-SAN from those numbers&#8230;  It sounds like a wash on performance, but I thought the Zeus only writes @100MB/s.  </p>
<p>Enjoy the wheels</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kevin Burton</title>
		<link>http://storagemojo.com/2008/01/14/emcs-new-flash-drives/comment-page-1/#comment-163461</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Burton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 06:59:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storagemojo.com/2008/01/14/emcs-new-flash-drives/#comment-163461</guid>
		<description>We&#039;re getting the mtron drives next week.  The benchmarks should be off the hook.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#8217;re getting the mtron drives next week.  The benchmarks should be off the hook.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nik Simpson</title>
		<link>http://storagemojo.com/2008/01/14/emcs-new-flash-drives/comment-page-1/#comment-163415</link>
		<dc:creator>Nik Simpson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 02:55:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storagemojo.com/2008/01/14/emcs-new-flash-drives/#comment-163415</guid>
		<description>So I need two Zeus drives in a DMX to match the random IOPs performance of the RamSan, even given initial high costs of Zeus, I think I could make a safe bet as to which is cheaper. On the throughout issue, I don&#039;t believe its going to be important to customers who will be using it primarily for random I/O where actual throughput rates are tiny.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So I need two Zeus drives in a DMX to match the random IOPs performance of the RamSan, even given initial high costs of Zeus, I think I could make a safe bet as to which is cheaper. On the throughout issue, I don&#8217;t believe its going to be important to customers who will be using it primarily for random I/O where actual throughput rates are tiny.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
