Comments on: Atrato: High-performance, high-density storage http://storagemojo.com/2008/02/12/atrato-high-performance-high-density-storage/ Data storage info & analysis Mon, 12 May 2008 04:24:31 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Steve http://storagemojo.com/2008/02/12/atrato-high-performance-high-density-storage/#comment-181455 Steve Mon, 17 Mar 2008 21:47:28 +0000 http://storagemojo.com/2008/02/12/atrato-high-performance-high-density-storage/#comment-181455 Hmm wonder if in 2 years IBM will buy them?? Hmm wonder if in 2 years IBM will buy them??

]]> By: CDB http://storagemojo.com/2008/02/12/atrato-high-performance-high-density-storage/#comment-175148 CDB Mon, 25 Feb 2008 05:44:59 +0000 http://storagemojo.com/2008/02/12/atrato-high-performance-high-density-storage/#comment-175148 3000 SD MPEG-2 streams @ 3.75Mb/s is well within the bandwidth available to the Atrato system and, at 5RU, is very competitive with VOD offerings currently on the market (whether flash or disk based). The interesting thing that remains to be seen is which VOD vendor will be the first to announce pairing with a system which not only offers a solid content vault but the ability to increase overall streaming capacity? As far as HD @ 2Mb/s, well, it's not likely you'll see that in a broadcast plant any time soon. I know there are some online streaming services that claim they can deliver streaming HD in that bandwidth, but I doubt any of us will be linking our PC to the HDTV to watch it. Realistic HD levels range from extremely compressed (MPEG-4) 5Mbps to standard rates such as MPEG-2 20Mbps. 3000 SD MPEG-2 streams @ 3.75Mb/s is well within the bandwidth available to the Atrato system and, at 5RU, is very competitive with VOD offerings currently on the market (whether flash or disk based). The interesting thing that remains to be seen is which VOD vendor will be the first to announce pairing with a system which not only offers a solid content vault but the ability to increase overall streaming capacity?

As far as HD @ 2Mb/s, well, it’s not likely you’ll see that in a broadcast plant any time soon. I know there are some online streaming services that claim they can deliver streaming HD in that bandwidth, but I doubt any of us will be linking our PC to the HDTV to watch it. Realistic HD levels range from extremely compressed (MPEG-4) 5Mbps to standard rates such as MPEG-2 20Mbps.

]]> By: Mad Scientist! http://storagemojo.com/2008/02/12/atrato-high-performance-high-density-storage/#comment-175147 Mad Scientist! Mon, 25 Feb 2008 05:24:21 +0000 http://storagemojo.com/2008/02/12/atrato-high-performance-high-density-storage/#comment-175147 Val is quite right on both points. If the streaming could really be done with a $400 RAID card and 2GbFC on a crummy PC then there would not be a market for this. The aforementioned configuration would certainly work for 1 or two streams but not 3,000 streams - that is an entirely different problem that researchers have been struggling with for at least 15 years - I know this because I am one of those researchers. The 10K IOPS is probably a worst-case scenario for purely random small read operations over 100% of the capacity of the Atrato array where cache is useless. Given any sort of locality of reference, the IOPS would go up significantly. I think they could easily meet or exceed the numbers that Val mentions. Pretty amazing stuff if you ask me. Val is quite right on both points.
If the streaming could really be done with a $400 RAID card and 2GbFC on a crummy PC then there would not be a market for this. The aforementioned configuration would certainly work for 1 or two streams but not 3,000 streams - that is an entirely different problem that researchers have been struggling with for at least 15 years - I know this because I am one of those researchers.

The 10K IOPS is probably a worst-case scenario for purely random small read operations over 100% of the capacity of the Atrato array where cache is useless. Given any sort of locality of reference, the IOPS would go up significantly. I think they could easily meet or exceed the numbers that Val mentions.

Pretty amazing stuff if you ask me.

]]> By: val http://storagemojo.com/2008/02/12/atrato-high-performance-high-density-storage/#comment-173759 val Wed, 20 Feb 2008 19:58:11 +0000 http://storagemojo.com/2008/02/12/atrato-high-performance-high-density-storage/#comment-173759 Simultaneous streams…. some minor bandwidth and caching 3000 HD streams 2 mbs (bits) —- 750 MB/s (bytes). Its a real screamer !!! You can get that performance with $400 raid controller, an 2gb/s fibre channel card and a crummy PC. How do you propose to get 750 MB/s with a 2 Gb/s FC card ? 2 Gb/s = 200 Mb/s, at best ! As to 120K IOPs, the number is realistic only with RAID cache hits, i.e. reading from memory. When you go to the actual disks (as soon as there is no cache left), the number is closer to 15-20K IOPs. Write IOPs are naturally even slower, about 40K when hitting the cahe, about 10K when hitting the disk. Also, the numbers of 20K read IOPs/10K write IOPs were achieved with about 120 disks and four 2Gb FC ports. (http://bbs.doit.com.cn/attachment.php?aid=5055) So, I don't quite understand your scorn... Simultaneous streams…. some minor bandwidth and caching 3000 HD streams 2 mbs (bits) —- 750 MB/s (bytes). Its a real screamer !!! You can get that performance with $400 raid controller, an 2gb/s fibre channel card and a crummy PC.

How do you propose to get 750 MB/s with a 2 Gb/s FC card ? 2 Gb/s = 200 Mb/s, at best !

As to 120K IOPs, the number is realistic only with RAID cache hits, i.e. reading from memory. When you go to the actual disks (as soon as there is no cache left), the number is closer to 15-20K IOPs. Write IOPs are naturally even slower, about 40K when hitting the cahe, about 10K when hitting the disk. Also, the numbers of 20K read IOPs/10K write IOPs were achieved with about 120 disks and four 2Gb FC ports. (http://bbs.doit.com.cn/attachment.php?aid=5055)

So, I don’t quite understand your scorn…

]]> By: Atrato: a new kind of high performance storage « Storage Effect http://storagemojo.com/2008/02/12/atrato-high-performance-high-density-storage/#comment-173702 Atrato: a new kind of high performance storage « Storage Effect Wed, 20 Feb 2008 14:32:55 +0000 http://storagemojo.com/2008/02/12/atrato-high-performance-high-density-storage/#comment-173702 [...] Robin Harris has a nice analysis of their new idea and product here.  [...] [...] Robin Harris has a nice analysis of their new idea and product here.  [...]

]]> By: xfer_rdy http://storagemojo.com/2008/02/12/atrato-high-performance-high-density-storage/#comment-172579 xfer_rdy Sun, 17 Feb 2008 05:57:43 +0000 http://storagemojo.com/2008/02/12/atrato-high-performance-high-density-storage/#comment-172579 They look like they are competing with 5 year old technology. Their specs maybe ok for teleco systems, like voice mail... Until recently, I believe this company was called Sherwood Information Systems or something like that. They've had a face lift. The world must have really gone crazy at some point.... 10,000 transactions per second... Uhhh IOPS ? On their web site they call they it "tough stuff". This is 2008 !!! if you can't do 120,000 IOPs in a 5RU give it up. Simultaneous streams.... some minor bandwidth and caching 3000 HD streams 2 mbs (bits) ---- 750 MB/s (bytes). Its a real screamer !!! You can get that performance with $400 raid controller, an 2gb/s fibre channel card and a crummy PC. Counter rotation ?? There is some debate on whether its snake oil, that is unless the disk resonances are tightly coupled (that's usually called a poor enclosure design). Others swear by it.. Ok, since we can't see it, and they claim up to 80% saving on rack density and power ... In comparison to what ?? 9gb drives ? 90% saving on connectivity ? Yes, if you are talking about T1s in comparison to fibre channel. Reliability and down time is critical for this market. The carriers and operators are concerned with annual cost per stream. Today, cable operator headends are crammed with equipment with limited power, so they may have good chance in that market. As soon as operators can dump that analog equipment (Feb 17, 2009), racks space and power will be available and the door will close on that niche market. SUN has an enterprise product they sell for $50/stream retail. They can be competitive. Hopefully the Atrato management team will have the relationships in place to close some deals. With the emerging business of on-site leased storage into carriers and operators, for pennies/gb ( They look like they are competing with 5 year old technology. Their specs maybe ok for teleco systems, like voice mail…

Until recently, I believe this company was called Sherwood Information Systems or something like that. They’ve had a face lift.

The world must have really gone crazy at some point…. 10,000 transactions per second… Uhhh IOPS ? On their web site they call they it “tough stuff”. This is 2008 !!! if you can’t do 120,000 IOPs in a 5RU give it up.

Simultaneous streams…. some minor bandwidth and caching 3000 HD streams 2 mbs (bits) —- 750 MB/s (bytes). Its a real screamer !!! You can get that performance with $400 raid controller, an 2gb/s fibre channel card and a crummy PC.

Counter rotation ?? There is some debate on whether its snake oil, that is unless the disk resonances are tightly coupled (that’s usually called a poor enclosure design). Others swear by it..

Ok, since we can’t see it, and they claim up to 80% saving on rack density and power … In comparison to what ?? 9gb drives ?

90% saving on connectivity ? Yes, if you are talking about T1s in comparison to fibre channel.

Reliability and down time is critical for this market. The carriers and operators are concerned with annual cost per stream. Today, cable operator headends are crammed with equipment with limited power, so they may have good chance in that market. As soon as operators can dump that analog equipment (Feb 17, 2009), racks space and power will be available and the door will close on that niche market.

SUN has an enterprise product they sell for $50/stream retail. They can be competitive.

Hopefully the Atrato management team will have the relationships in place to close some deals.

With the emerging business of on-site leased storage into carriers and operators, for pennies/gb (

]]> By: Startups Try to Speed Up Storage - GigaOM http://storagemojo.com/2008/02/12/atrato-high-performance-high-density-storage/#comment-171762 Startups Try to Speed Up Storage - GigaOM Thu, 14 Feb 2008 20:39:41 +0000 http://storagemojo.com/2008/02/12/atrato-high-performance-high-density-storage/#comment-171762 [...] Instead of accessing data on disk drives, startups and the industry giants such as EMC are attempting to come up with faster ways to access information, measuring their progress in terms of how many requests a storage system can process per second. Startup Atrato, which launched this week with $18 million in funding and a name-brand board, says it can deliver 5,000 such transactions per second using its software laid over high-density disks. [...] [...] Instead of accessing data on disk drives, startups and the industry giants such as EMC are attempting to come up with faster ways to access information, measuring their progress in terms of how many requests a storage system can process per second. Startup Atrato, which launched this week with $18 million in funding and a name-brand board, says it can deliver 5,000 such transactions per second using its software laid over high-density disks. [...]

]]> By: Gary Watson http://storagemojo.com/2008/02/12/atrato-high-performance-high-density-storage/#comment-171729 Gary Watson Thu, 14 Feb 2008 17:49:33 +0000 http://storagemojo.com/2008/02/12/atrato-high-performance-high-density-storage/#comment-171729 The herringbone stuff in the patent applications is interesting, but as far as mounting pairs of drives in counter-rotating back-to-back couplets for RV cancellation -- this is something we started shipping in our ATABeast back in 2002. It continues to this day in our SATABeast. Gary The herringbone stuff in the patent applications is interesting, but as far as mounting pairs of drives in counter-rotating back-to-back couplets for RV cancellation — this is something we started shipping in our ATABeast back in 2002. It continues to this day in our SATABeast.
Gary

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