Comments on: SOHO backup that works: why is it so hard? http://storagemojo.com/2008/03/19/soho-backup-that-works-why-is-it-so-hard/ Data storage info & analysis Mon, 12 May 2008 05:36:16 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Michael Van Der Beek http://storagemojo.com/2008/03/19/soho-backup-that-works-why-is-it-so-hard/#comment-194796 Michael Van Der Beek Fri, 25 Apr 2008 04:55:24 +0000 http://storagemojo.com/2008/03/19/soho-backup-that-works-why-is-it-so-hard/#comment-194796 There are many backup solutions targeted towards servers. Few target towards disaster recovery for personal PCs. Especially when VIPs of your organisation travels you might have a situation that your VIP is a thousand miles from your IT guy and his harddisk just crashed. One product, that the company I work for is being picked up by the local government and DHL is a product called Exboot. What it does it backups to an external USB drive. What so surprising you ask. Well what it does is make it bootable. If your system's Bios has an option for USB boot. You'll find your entire OS is now bootable off the external drive. The VIP can take his time to return to the office and get the faulty drive in the laptop replaced. This means your entire system, applications data is still live an available to you. We've been told that some companies are beginning to change their notebook buying policy to ensure that the bios has full capability to boot even Vista off the Exboot drive. Check out www.hantechnology.com.sg Had one customer that uses it for their front desk machines. This is in case of a HD failure, they just plug it in boot up the Exboot and their queues don't get longer, the same number of counters are still available. Their IT guys can come later in the day to fix it. And yes it does do incrementals as well. No its only designed for PCs OS (XP/Vista) not server OS. There are many backup solutions targeted towards servers. Few target towards disaster recovery for personal PCs. Especially when VIPs of your organisation travels you might have a situation that your VIP is a thousand miles from your IT guy and his harddisk just crashed.

One product, that the company I work for is being picked up by the local government and DHL is a product called Exboot.

What it does it backups to an external USB drive. What so surprising you ask.
Well what it does is make it bootable. If your system’s Bios has an option for USB boot. You’ll find your entire OS is now bootable off the external drive. The VIP can take his time to return to the office and get the faulty drive in the laptop replaced. This means your entire system, applications data is still live an available to you. We’ve been told that some companies are beginning to change their notebook buying policy to ensure that the bios has full capability to boot even Vista off the Exboot drive.

Check out http://www.hantechnology.com.sg

Had one customer that uses it for their front desk machines. This is in case of a HD failure, they just plug it in boot up the Exboot and their queues don’t get longer, the same number of counters are still available. Their IT guys can come later in the day to fix it.

And yes it does do incrementals as well. No its only designed for PCs OS (XP/Vista) not server OS.

]]> By: Judith http://storagemojo.com/2008/03/19/soho-backup-that-works-why-is-it-so-hard/#comment-189038 Judith Wed, 09 Apr 2008 19:54:34 +0000 http://storagemojo.com/2008/03/19/soho-backup-that-works-why-is-it-so-hard/#comment-189038 What a timely article! Though we support lots of server-based backups (mostly BEX, some BrightStor), we also have a number of SOHO and individual customers who have been using tape backup systems for years -- DAT and TRAVAN. Now we have no affordable TB solutions to offer them. My concern about backups to USB drives is that there is a single point of failure for the single-drive solutions, and lots of expense for the drive-cartridge ones (e.g. REV). I suppose online backups are okay, but some have security concerns/connectivity issues/confidentiality -- they like knowing they have a backup in their safety deposit box if disaster strikes. We are "angsting" with them over this...while tape backups are (yes yes yes) unreliable, subject to hard and soft failures, I miss 'em. Maybe I've been around too long... What a timely article! Though we support lots of server-based backups (mostly BEX, some BrightStor), we also have a number of SOHO and individual customers who have been using tape backup systems for years — DAT and TRAVAN. Now we have no affordable TB solutions to offer them. My concern about backups to USB drives is that there is a single point of failure for the single-drive solutions, and lots of expense for the drive-cartridge ones (e.g. REV). I suppose online backups are okay, but some have security concerns/connectivity issues/confidentiality — they like knowing they have a backup in their safety deposit box if disaster strikes. We are “angsting” with them over this…while tape backups are (yes yes yes) unreliable, subject to hard and soft failures, I miss ‘em. Maybe I’ve been around too long…

]]> By: Eric Grancher http://storagemojo.com/2008/03/19/soho-backup-that-works-why-is-it-so-hard/#comment-182790 Eric Grancher Sun, 23 Mar 2008 17:55:02 +0000 http://storagemojo.com/2008/03/19/soho-backup-that-works-why-is-it-so-hard/#comment-182790 good afternoon, thank you for your always very interesting site. Backing to an external disk has imho a number of drawbacks like the fact that a power issue / theft / virus could affect several / all of your disk devices. Remote backup has the drawback to be slow, expecially for complete restore. Just to mention that I am impressed with Mozy (now an EMC company) for remote backup, very simple. It offers web restore from anywhere (a computer where you have not installed any special sofware). It runs on both MacOSX and Windows (and I use both versions) and is very stable. regards, eric PS: I am not linked in a way or another with Mozy or EMC, just a happy customer good afternoon,

thank you for your always very interesting site.

Backing to an external disk has imho a number of drawbacks like the fact that a power issue / theft / virus could affect several / all of your disk devices.

Remote backup has the drawback to be slow, expecially for complete restore.

Just to mention that I am impressed with Mozy (now an EMC company) for remote backup, very simple. It offers web restore from anywhere (a computer where you have not installed any special sofware). It runs on both MacOSX and Windows (and I use both versions) and is very stable.

regards,
eric

PS: I am not linked in a way or another with Mozy or EMC, just a happy customer

]]> By: Matthew Geddert http://storagemojo.com/2008/03/19/soho-backup-that-works-why-is-it-so-hard/#comment-182213 Matthew Geddert Thu, 20 Mar 2008 16:02:11 +0000 http://storagemojo.com/2008/03/19/soho-backup-that-works-why-is-it-so-hard/#comment-182213 I absolutely agree. SOHO solutions, and pretty much all other backup solutions are completely unnecessarily complex. But, I am worried that people are relying on solutions that only solve half the problem. People need two things from backups, both of which need to be able to be done automatically: 1) Disaster recovery (with off-site data storage) - not just for natural disasters, but also for the day your backup hard drive decides it doesn't want to work any more. 2) Archives for deleted/destroyed files that are reasonably accessible (meaning a person doesn't need to feel "dumb" about having to ask the IT department to restore their file, and thus instead re-creates their work) Although Time Machine like solutions solve the number two problem we have yet to see a SOHO solutions for extremely easy to setup automated disaster recovery (i.e. off-site backups). I use rsync and ssh and that is not nearly easy enough. We also need a device like the Time Capsule to automatically sync its files to the cloud (maybe through a .mac account) and somebody from the windows world to copy that functionality before we can say that these simple solutions are "enough" for SOHO users. I absolutely agree. SOHO solutions, and pretty much all other backup solutions are completely unnecessarily complex. But, I am worried that people are relying on solutions that only solve half the problem. People need two things from backups, both of which need to be able to be done automatically:

1) Disaster recovery (with off-site data storage) - not just for natural disasters, but also for the day your backup hard drive decides it doesn’t want to work any more.

2) Archives for deleted/destroyed files that are reasonably accessible (meaning a person doesn’t need to feel “dumb” about having to ask the IT department to restore their file, and thus instead re-creates their work)

Although Time Machine like solutions solve the number two problem we have yet to see a SOHO solutions for extremely easy to setup automated disaster recovery (i.e. off-site backups). I use rsync and ssh and that is not nearly easy enough. We also need a device like the Time Capsule to automatically sync its files to the cloud (maybe through a .mac account) and somebody from the windows world to copy that functionality before we can say that these simple solutions are “enough” for SOHO users.

]]> By: Marc Farley http://storagemojo.com/2008/03/19/soho-backup-that-works-why-is-it-so-hard/#comment-182210 Marc Farley Thu, 20 Mar 2008 15:45:07 +0000 http://storagemojo.com/2008/03/19/soho-backup-that-works-why-is-it-so-hard/#comment-182210 Online backup for consumers has two uncertainty problems: Recovery and subscription. Will I be able to recover and how do I pay for (and stop) subscriptions. It sounds easy, but check your own thinking on this. How many online subscriptions have you had problems with on the billing end with things like credit card number changes, etc where your service was turned off? I've certainly had a few. Not sure that I want to pay for months and then find out that I can't get my stuff back. I like Pete Steege's solution, which is to buy a big brick with 1394 or USB 2 connectivity and copy my data files to it. I've lost systems before and this approach lets me get rid of all the worthless software I've installed and never used. I guess I just like brute force and I don't get that brute force feelgood from an online service. A final comment on product development. Enterprise products "dumbed down" don't work, won't work and generally suck. The approach at EqualLogic was to start from scratch - and it worked and is still working in the SMB space. Online backup for consumers has two uncertainty problems: Recovery and subscription. Will I be able to recover and how do I pay for (and stop) subscriptions. It sounds easy, but check your own thinking on this. How many online subscriptions have you had problems with on the billing end with things like credit card number changes, etc where your service was turned off? I’ve certainly had a few. Not sure that I want to pay for months and then find out that I can’t get my stuff back. I like Pete Steege’s solution, which is to buy a big brick with 1394 or USB 2 connectivity and copy my data files to it. I’ve lost systems before and this approach lets me get rid of all the worthless software I’ve installed and never used. I guess I just like brute force and I don’t get that brute force feelgood from an online service.

A final comment on product development. Enterprise products “dumbed down” don’t work, won’t work and generally suck. The approach at EqualLogic was to start from scratch - and it worked and is still working in the SMB space.

]]> By: Pete Steege http://storagemojo.com/2008/03/19/soho-backup-that-works-why-is-it-so-hard/#comment-182203 Pete Steege Thu, 20 Mar 2008 14:52:54 +0000 http://storagemojo.com/2008/03/19/soho-backup-that-works-why-is-it-so-hard/#comment-182203 I'm seeing SMB solutions coming up from the Consumer market for a change, rather than trickling down from Enterprise. For example, Maxtor One Touch is being used by a lot of SOHO users. It's often about ease of use, as you point out. I’m seeing SMB solutions coming up from the Consumer market for a change, rather than trickling down from Enterprise. For example, Maxtor One Touch is being used by a lot of SOHO users. It’s often about ease of use, as you point out.

]]> By: Marc Lachance http://storagemojo.com/2008/03/19/soho-backup-that-works-why-is-it-so-hard/#comment-182135 Marc Lachance Thu, 20 Mar 2008 10:11:24 +0000 http://storagemojo.com/2008/03/19/soho-backup-that-works-why-is-it-so-hard/#comment-182135 Bravo! Your comments related to backup also apply to the way most IT support companies approach small business...with technical tools that force them to learn more and do more about it, rather than just getting the job done. You are right. Small businesses don't always recognize the need (as with any insurance), but they are ready to take care of it if they don't have to stop running their business to do it. What they are sold is something that doesn't solve the problem unless they put a lot more effort into it. Bravo!
Your comments related to backup also apply to the way most IT support companies approach small business…with technical tools that force them to learn more and do more about it, rather than just getting the job done. You are right. Small businesses don’t always recognize the need (as with any insurance), but they are ready to take care of it if they don’t have to stop running their business to do it. What they are sold is something that doesn’t solve the problem unless they put a lot more effort into it.

]]> By: tim wissman http://storagemojo.com/2008/03/19/soho-backup-that-works-why-is-it-so-hard/#comment-182077 tim wissman Thu, 20 Mar 2008 07:10:09 +0000 http://storagemojo.com/2008/03/19/soho-backup-that-works-why-is-it-so-hard/#comment-182077 having been dealing with backup vendors for longer then i could have ever imagined, the SOHO market should be a free-bee. the prices they ask (and get) for enterprise level backup solutions like legato, veritas (symantic), bakbone, etc should easily cover the money lost on a 5 to 10TB license. having been dealing with backup vendors for longer then i could have ever imagined, the SOHO market should be a free-bee. the prices they ask (and get)
for enterprise level backup solutions like legato, veritas (symantic), bakbone, etc
should easily cover the money lost on a 5 to 10TB license.

]]> By: PJ http://storagemojo.com/2008/03/19/soho-backup-that-works-why-is-it-so-hard/#comment-182021 PJ Thu, 20 Mar 2008 04:11:19 +0000 http://storagemojo.com/2008/03/19/soho-backup-that-works-why-is-it-so-hard/#comment-182021 Couple of things: For really easy backups see JungleDisk(windows) and duplicity(linux); personal backups (even SOHO) to Amazon S3 make a lot of sense time & trouble-wise. Also, you're right about the SMB market - SMB shouldn't be looked at as a scaled-down enterprise, but rather as what it more often is: a scaled up SOHO, with all the homogeneity, bailing wire, duct tape and general "uniqueness" that should be expected of a pile of people putting their SOHO setups all in one place now that they can afford real office space. Couple of things:

For really easy backups see JungleDisk(windows) and duplicity(linux); personal backups (even SOHO) to Amazon S3 make a lot of sense time & trouble-wise.

Also, you’re right about the SMB market - SMB shouldn’t be looked at as a scaled-down enterprise, but rather as what it more often is: a scaled up SOHO, with all the homogeneity, bailing wire, duct tape and general “uniqueness” that should be expected of a pile of people putting their SOHO setups all in one place now that they can afford real office space.

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