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	<title>Comments on: Notebook SSDs are dead</title>
	<atom:link href="http://storagemojo.com/2008/07/02/notebook-ssds-are-dead/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://storagemojo.com/2008/07/02/notebook-ssds-are-dead/</link>
	<description>Data storage info &#38; analysis</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 08:16:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: james  braselton</title>
		<link>http://storagemojo.com/2008/07/02/notebook-ssds-are-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-198848</link>
		<dc:creator>james  braselton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 03:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storagemojo.com/?p=730#comment-198848</guid>
		<description>Hi  there  you  are  worng  ssd  are  just  now  taking  off  sony  and  alien  ware  offer  256  gb  ssd  for  $1,300  and  sony  apple   and  dell  have  128  gb  ssd   for  about  $500  soo  soner  or  later  the  hard  core  gamers  advantaly  put  hard  drive  sells  too  zero   i   say  in  about  22   years  from   know  no  one  will  know  what  a  hard  drive  is  just  like  the  floppy  drive  and  dail  up  modems</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi  there  you  are  worng  ssd  are  just  now  taking  off  sony  and  alien  ware  offer  256  gb  ssd  for  $1,300  and  sony  apple   and  dell  have  128  gb  ssd   for  about  $500  soo  soner  or  later  the  hard  core  gamers  advantaly  put  hard  drive  sells  too  zero   i   say  in  about  22   years  from   know  no  one  will  know  what  a  hard  drive  is  just  like  the  floppy  drive  and  dail  up  modems</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://storagemojo.com/2008/07/02/notebook-ssds-are-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-197899</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 14:55:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storagemojo.com/?p=730#comment-197899</guid>
		<description>Just a remarkable example, beyond extreme speed increase by booting and random IO, SSDs are more robust devices, I am working in hard enviroemnts and this is the 5th time in 2 years that I changed my 2.5 inch rotating notebook drive because of bad sector and malfunctioning because of vibration. With SSD no trouble even when working near a press brake vibrating at 20HZ</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just a remarkable example, beyond extreme speed increase by booting and random IO, SSDs are more robust devices, I am working in hard enviroemnts and this is the 5th time in 2 years that I changed my 2.5 inch rotating notebook drive because of bad sector and malfunctioning because of vibration. With SSD no trouble even when working near a press brake vibrating at 20HZ</p>
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		<title>By: Gary</title>
		<link>http://storagemojo.com/2008/07/02/notebook-ssds-are-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-196783</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jul 2008 03:39:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storagemojo.com/?p=730#comment-196783</guid>
		<description>Antonio: "NAND prices keep going down and SSDs too."

Do you think HDD prices and performance are standing still. There just isn't going to be parity in these competing products any time soon (next 5-8 years i.m.h.o.)  So when either side claims a superiority, it seems fundamental to question and attempt to prove the claim. Flash (SSDs) will improve with maturity, without doubt. And inherent qualities in flash will bring improvements to users. But this whole debate has been attended by much hype and the usual caveats should be heeded.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Antonio: &#8220;NAND prices keep going down and SSDs too.&#8221;</p>
<p>Do you think HDD prices and performance are standing still. There just isn&#8217;t going to be parity in these competing products any time soon (next 5-8 years i.m.h.o.)  So when either side claims a superiority, it seems fundamental to question and attempt to prove the claim. Flash (SSDs) will improve with maturity, without doubt. And inherent qualities in flash will bring improvements to users. But this whole debate has been attended by much hype and the usual caveats should be heeded.</p>
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		<title>By: antonio</title>
		<link>http://storagemojo.com/2008/07/02/notebook-ssds-are-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-196680</link>
		<dc:creator>antonio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2008 22:32:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storagemojo.com/?p=730#comment-196680</guid>
		<description>hi, I find strange you say ssd is dead. Startup times when loading programs or documents can be very good =&#62; they can make you win time and the money you wasted if you work much at your pc/laptop. If they were cheaper they would be preferred absolutely over hdd by the regular users.  Many who use the pc to work not in multimedia doesn't care about the capacity. And even the capacity could be not a problem if ssd gets bigger. Everything is going smoothly, and prehistoric spinning hard drives are the ones who are dead. I don't understand why are you hesitant about a new good technology. Most people seems to be excited. May be even samsung in its next offering will aready lower the prices fast, even more han ocz recently did. Am waiting for it. NAND prices keep going down and SSDs too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hi, I find strange you say ssd is dead. Startup times when loading programs or documents can be very good =&gt; they can make you win time and the money you wasted if you work much at your pc/laptop. If they were cheaper they would be preferred absolutely over hdd by the regular users.  Many who use the pc to work not in multimedia doesn&#8217;t care about the capacity. And even the capacity could be not a problem if ssd gets bigger. Everything is going smoothly, and prehistoric spinning hard drives are the ones who are dead. I don&#8217;t understand why are you hesitant about a new good technology. Most people seems to be excited. May be even samsung in its next offering will aready lower the prices fast, even more han ocz recently did. Am waiting for it. NAND prices keep going down and SSDs too.</p>
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		<title>By: thinking sysadmin &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Catch-up Links, 7/9/2008</title>
		<link>http://storagemojo.com/2008/07/02/notebook-ssds-are-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-196599</link>
		<dc:creator>thinking sysadmin &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Catch-up Links, 7/9/2008</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jul 2008 18:47:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storagemojo.com/?p=730#comment-196599</guid>
		<description>[...] to keep you from updating your blog. But on the bright side, I didn&#8217;t have to link to the notebook SSDs are dead - no they&#8217;re not [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to keep you from updating your blog. But on the bright side, I didn&#8217;t have to link to the notebook SSDs are dead - no they&#8217;re not [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Fazal Majid</title>
		<link>http://storagemojo.com/2008/07/02/notebook-ssds-are-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-196578</link>
		<dc:creator>Fazal Majid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 14:19:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storagemojo.com/?p=730#comment-196578</guid>
		<description>I have a MacBook Air with the SSD option. It boots so fast I am considering getting  a SSD as the boot drive for my next desktop.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a MacBook Air with the SSD option. It boots so fast I am considering getting  a SSD as the boot drive for my next desktop.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Kraska</title>
		<link>http://storagemojo.com/2008/07/02/notebook-ssds-are-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-196557</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Kraska</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 03:39:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storagemojo.com/?p=730#comment-196557</guid>
		<description>I think it might behoove the various readers of Robin's article to go over to the Tom's Hardware original story and read the comments in detail. It seems to me that we're not readily able to discern much here quite yet.

Joe</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it might behoove the various readers of Robin&#8217;s article to go over to the Tom&#8217;s Hardware original story and read the comments in detail. It seems to me that we&#8217;re not readily able to discern much here quite yet.</p>
<p>Joe</p>
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		<title>By: Gayle</title>
		<link>http://storagemojo.com/2008/07/02/notebook-ssds-are-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-196542</link>
		<dc:creator>Gayle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 19:37:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storagemojo.com/?p=730#comment-196542</guid>
		<description>Seems odd that the company that was first to the market with MLC SSD's and recently knocked Samsung out of a lucrative Apple contract should have been tested. I think Apple probably ran as many tests as TOM"S. STEC SSD's are superior and it directly relates to their controller technology and testing procedures .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seems odd that the company that was first to the market with MLC SSD&#8217;s and recently knocked Samsung out of a lucrative Apple contract should have been tested. I think Apple probably ran as many tests as TOM&#8221;S. STEC SSD&#8217;s are superior and it directly relates to their controller technology and testing procedures .</p>
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		<title>By: Wes Felter</title>
		<link>http://storagemojo.com/2008/07/02/notebook-ssds-are-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-196541</link>
		<dc:creator>Wes Felter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 18:51:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storagemojo.com/?p=730#comment-196541</guid>
		<description>A different test with a different result:

http://blog.laptopmag.com/web-surfing-test-shows-ssds-better-for-battery-life</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A different test with a different result:</p>
<p><a href="http://blog.laptopmag.com/web-surfing-test-shows-ssds-better-for-battery-life" rel="nofollow">http://blog.laptopmag.com/web-surfing-test-shows-ssds-better-for-battery-life</a></p>
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		<title>By: linux notebook</title>
		<link>http://storagemojo.com/2008/07/02/notebook-ssds-are-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-196377</link>
		<dc:creator>linux notebook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 05:31:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storagemojo.com/?p=730#comment-196377</guid>
		<description>[...] puts the final nail in the coffin. The title says it all: The SSD Power Consumption Hoax : Flahttp://storagemojo.com/2008/07/02/notebook-ssds-are-dead/PC superstore suffers breakdown over Linux notebook The RegisterAverage CPU Power ACP The Truth [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] puts the final nail in the coffin. The title says it all: The SSD Power Consumption Hoax : Flahttp://storagemojo.com/2008/07/02/notebook-ssds-are-dead/PC superstore suffers breakdown over Linux notebook The RegisterAverage CPU Power ACP The Truth [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Robin Harris</title>
		<link>http://storagemojo.com/2008/07/02/notebook-ssds-are-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-196355</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin Harris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 21:06:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storagemojo.com/?p=730#comment-196355</guid>
		<description>From Micron Technology - why they can't comment like everyone else  . . . .

To be attributed to Dean Klein, vice president of memory system development for Micron:

“The controllers analyzed in the Tom’s Hardware review are early-generation, multi-chip and in some cases even use FPGA's, which can be quite power hungry. As with many other first and second generation drives, these drives are not delivering on the full potential of the NAND and are not delivering properly on the performance promise.

There is another factor to be aware of. If the CPU spends 25 million clock cycles waiting for random HDD data, but only part of that waiting for SSD data, the actual increase in notebook power consumption may be in the CPU. A useful metric is how much processing gets done per watt. If you are willing to scale back performance to that of an HDD-based system, an SSD-based system should deliver significantly longer battery life.

Finally, consider that many of today's applications and operating systems are not optimized for SSDs, but for rotating media. As an example, Vista has a background defrag utility that is not needed, and in fact is not desired for SSDs.”</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From Micron Technology - why they can&#8217;t comment like everyone else  . . . .</p>
<p>To be attributed to Dean Klein, vice president of memory system development for Micron:</p>
<p>“The controllers analyzed in the Tom’s Hardware review are early-generation, multi-chip and in some cases even use FPGA&#8217;s, which can be quite power hungry. As with many other first and second generation drives, these drives are not delivering on the full potential of the NAND and are not delivering properly on the performance promise.</p>
<p>There is another factor to be aware of. If the CPU spends 25 million clock cycles waiting for random HDD data, but only part of that waiting for SSD data, the actual increase in notebook power consumption may be in the CPU. A useful metric is how much processing gets done per watt. If you are willing to scale back performance to that of an HDD-based system, an SSD-based system should deliver significantly longer battery life.</p>
<p>Finally, consider that many of today&#8217;s applications and operating systems are not optimized for SSDs, but for rotating media. As an example, Vista has a background defrag utility that is not needed, and in fact is not desired for SSDs.”</p>
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		<title>By: Robin Harris</title>
		<link>http://storagemojo.com/2008/07/02/notebook-ssds-are-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-196341</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin Harris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 17:47:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storagemojo.com/?p=730#comment-196341</guid>
		<description>This is a corner case where the divide between marketing and engineering gets thrown into sharp relief. Yes, there are issues with Tom's methodology. There are *always* issues with testing. 

But the preponderance of ALL the testing is that notebook SSDs have either no or small power advantages over hard drives for most consumers. There have been a couple of tests  that do show some advantage: Anandtech's test that played music continuously - when most road warriors would use a player or a cell phone.

And there are good reasons for this: hard drives are pretty efficient and getting more so; and current displays, CPUs and graphics use a lot more power than the disks. There's only so much juice you can squeeze out of this lemon.

In a consumer driven world the fine points get lost. Until a major notebook vendor can advertise something like "Get an extra 60 minutes battery life with our high-performance SSD" the notebook SSD market is toast.

The standard engineering take is: give us more time and money and we will make it better. And I'm sure they can and will make it better. The question is: better enough to matter?

Here's the marketing take. When you charge more for less capacity and the only benefit is performance - and even that seems limited to startup and some file operations - you do not have a value proposition that consumers will buy. 

And BUYING, my friends, is the name of the game.

Flash will still play an important role in data storage - just not in the notebook market.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a corner case where the divide between marketing and engineering gets thrown into sharp relief. Yes, there are issues with Tom&#8217;s methodology. There are *always* issues with testing. </p>
<p>But the preponderance of ALL the testing is that notebook SSDs have either no or small power advantages over hard drives for most consumers. There have been a couple of tests  that do show some advantage: Anandtech&#8217;s test that played music continuously - when most road warriors would use a player or a cell phone.</p>
<p>And there are good reasons for this: hard drives are pretty efficient and getting more so; and current displays, CPUs and graphics use a lot more power than the disks. There&#8217;s only so much juice you can squeeze out of this lemon.</p>
<p>In a consumer driven world the fine points get lost. Until a major notebook vendor can advertise something like &#8220;Get an extra 60 minutes battery life with our high-performance SSD&#8221; the notebook SSD market is toast.</p>
<p>The standard engineering take is: give us more time and money and we will make it better. And I&#8217;m sure they can and will make it better. The question is: better enough to matter?</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the marketing take. When you charge more for less capacity and the only benefit is performance - and even that seems limited to startup and some file operations - you do not have a value proposition that consumers will buy. </p>
<p>And BUYING, my friends, is the name of the game.</p>
<p>Flash will still play an important role in data storage - just not in the notebook market.</p>
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		<title>By: Colin</title>
		<link>http://storagemojo.com/2008/07/02/notebook-ssds-are-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-196340</link>
		<dc:creator>Colin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 17:34:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storagemojo.com/?p=730#comment-196340</guid>
		<description>The article had a systemic flaw in it's analysis...  That is that because the SSDs had higher performance, the benchmarks were likely doing more work with them than they were with the HDD.  So, the CPU was working harder, the graphics card was working harder, etc. etc.  Tom's should really redo the experiments and publish the disk stats and compare bytes read/written before battery death rather than simply battery runtime.  It's a glaring flaw that was immediately apparent and needs to be addressed before any conclusions can be drawn.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The article had a systemic flaw in it&#8217;s analysis&#8230;  That is that because the SSDs had higher performance, the benchmarks were likely doing more work with them than they were with the HDD.  So, the CPU was working harder, the graphics card was working harder, etc. etc.  Tom&#8217;s should really redo the experiments and publish the disk stats and compare bytes read/written before battery death rather than simply battery runtime.  It&#8217;s a glaring flaw that was immediately apparent and needs to be addressed before any conclusions can be drawn.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Shockley</title>
		<link>http://storagemojo.com/2008/07/02/notebook-ssds-are-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-196338</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Shockley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 15:28:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storagemojo.com/?p=730#comment-196338</guid>
		<description>They may still have a niche with ultra-quiet PCs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They may still have a niche with ultra-quiet PCs.</p>
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